Conversation - with Pastor Jared about - Surrendering Thanks - Altar'd Series

 In this episode of Kingdom Conversations, Pastor Jared and Pastor Robby explore what it means to build an altar of thanksgiving in our lives. As part of the Altar’d series, this conversation challenges us to move beyond worry and self-reliance and instead surrender our hearts in gratitude to God. Discover how thankfulness becomes a powerful act of worship that realigns our perspective, deepens our faith, and reminds us of God’s ongoing provision and faithfulness. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to this week's Botus Podcast called Kingdom Conversations. At Church of the Lakes, our mission is to connect all to Christ, to become healthy in God, and courageous in love. In 2026, we're emphasizing a kingdom mindset in all of our ministries and missions by being more like Christ and countercultural in our living. Today's podcast highlights our Latin sermon series, Altar. As we study the altars found throughout Scripture, we're reminded of our call to surrender to God. In surrendering, we create space for him to transform us from the inside out. Join Pastor Jared and Pastor Robbie as they unpack this week's message on surrendering thanks, which brings forth an everlasting peace from God.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Welcome to another Kingdom Conversation. I'm Pastor Robbie Strock, and today we're heading towards the next altar in our sermon series, which can be listened to right here on this podcast feed as we go over this time an altar from Joshua 8. And it's at this altar we see Israel reaffirm the covenantal promise with God. And we see Israel lay down gratitude on the altar as they finally enter the promised land. After a season of wandering, it's here in Joshua 8 that we see the echoes between two mountains, this gratitude, which uh really is given to the Lord after all he's done for the Israelites. Well, Pastor Jared, we're ready to talk a little bit about Joshua 8 today, aren't we? We sure are. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, it'll be good because I think Joshua and the Israelites, after finally entering the Promised Land, have a big worship service at the foot of these mountains, right? Uh at Mount Ebol, especially. Uh why do you think, as we head into the scriptures today, why do you think the Israelites, they stop what they're doing as they enter in and have these conquest victories? Why do you think worship's the first thing that they go to do?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Um I I think it's the first thing they go to do because they're trying to keep the main thing the main thing. Um, you know, they had a deep relationship with a living God. And uh, you know, certainly they're they're a military taking over enemy nations. But even uh above that, it it's it has to do something with spirituality, with the vibrancy of faith in this living God. And I think that's really the reason why they want to stop and give gratitude. It's gratitude before achievement, right? Uh Israel is is, I think, acknowledging in this moment that it's not their strength that brought them into the promised land. It was God's strength and God's promises that brought them in to the promised land. And in a sense, worship, and it's worship today too, it acknowledges um that we did not do this on our own. Uh this was pretty much because of God and God alone.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

So, what you're saying is as we meet for corporate worship on Sunday mornings, let's say, uh that's our orientation ultimately, right? When we meet for worship.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yep. It's it's we we gather to lift our voices and hearts in praise and thanksgiving uh to the God who creates, the God who redeems, and the God who daily sustains us by the power of His Holy Spirit. Um so we rather we we gather our um on Sunday mornings uh uh uh m mostly just to give thanks and to praise and to worship and to celebrate our living God. And and that can sometimes, you know, if we can uh sidestep for a moment, that sometimes can be a challenge for people because you know, you and I are are up front, you know, preaching sermons, and it can feel very easy for the congregation to see us as the actors in a worship service and they're just sit here to watch us perform, but that is not what worship's at all about.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

No, because it's about active participation, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Yeah, there's all of us are performing, if I could use that word, for an audience of one, and that one is the living God. And uh whether we're up front preaching or sitting in a pew listening uh or praying, we all collectively bring our gifts to the worship space to the altar uh in reverence and in honor of God. And I think Joshua's doing that here with the people of God. It's not just Joshua uh erecting an altar and going before the altar to prevent it, uh uh present an offering to God, which was the burnt offering and uh a peace offering, right? But it was him gathering all the people, if you were to read Joshua 8, men, women, children, and even the foreigners among them, all gathering together at at the the um the bases of these two mountains, Mount Gar uh Gerizim and uh Mount Ebel, uh, to present that peace offering and to again keep the main thing the main thing. Uh before we we enter fully, let's worship and let's remember why we're actually here.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Which obviously uh there were things to celebrate in this moment as they begin, you know, the 400 years of oppression in Egypt. They're delivered by Moses. Well, they're delivered by God through Moses, right? Yeah, yeah. Cross the Red Sea, head out into the wilderness for 40 years, 40 more years, where ultimately, you know, it's not until Moses passes and the mantle is literally passed to Joshua as their apparent. Uh, do they cross the Jordan and head in and they have these conquests immediately? And as your sermon kind of illustrates, you know, there's Jericho, there's a victory. A lot of people sing the song, right? You know, as they travel around and they have the victory, but then they have a setback, they have defeat, then they have victory again, and it's after this second victory of I, right, that they meet here at these mountains, and you know, they pause their conquest to read the law. And I find that so interesting, Jared, because you know, um, how often in our own country, let's say, you know, in our American subculture, um, do we sit and pull out the Constitution and read through it? You know, how many people would celebrate the Fourth of July instead of with hot dogs and fireworks? But by reading the Constitution, that's an interesting connection.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

But yeah, you know, that's kind of what they do, because they didn't spare one line of the law, right? They read through the entire thing. And like you said, with everybody, right? Why do you think that was such a public display of gratitude?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

I think one reason is you go back to Deuteronomy, I think it's 27. Uh, forgive me if I'm I'm wrong here. But Moses commanded that that would happen. And so Joshua is being obedient uh to the wishes of his predecessor, Moses, in that moment. And and again, I think the reading of the law was because the people of God had to remember, and that's why Moses commanded this before he died, that that the future of Israel is not dependent on their strategy or their strength. It is completely dependent on their faithfulness to the word of God. Amen. Their faithfulness to the law God had given them uh during their wilderness wanderings.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

And, you know, the orientation of gratitude is expressed by uh following the law, yes, but then having a joy about it, right? Like, how many times uh do we go from uh thanking God for some amazing blessing that He's given us in our life to almost like six, eight weeks later start to grumble about that same thing that we just were so grateful for, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, you know, you're getting me thinking. I I think part of to the reading of the entire law, it it was much to your point to keep us from grumbling, that to recenter us. You know, to again fixate our eyes on what our eyes needed to be fixated on, fixated on, and that was on God, the living God, God's authority over us. I think it unified them spiritually. And I find that to be so interesting because going back to how he called all the people together, it was men, women, children, and foreigners, whoever was amongst the Israelite camps were called to be unified in a spiritual manner. Um, yeah, I I think that's part of it. I I think before Joshua wanted to take them to do any more battling, he wanted to make sure they they renewed their first love. And that was with their living God, the God who went into a made a covenantal promise with their ancestors and had been faithful in keeping it since the call of Abraham in Genesis chapter 12.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah, I uh learned a couple of weeks ago in one of my seminary classes that um throughout Deuteronomy we see this heart transformation that occurs. And uh one of my professors calls it heart surgery because God is reorienting the heart through his law so that it remains adjacent, um, aligned with the ways, words, and wisdoms of God. And oftentimes, um, as you illustrated in your sermon on Sunday, the more that we give our gratitude and stay aligned and joyfully in the ways of the Lord, we end up having our heart become humbled. And a lot of times that brings us to the adjacency of peace, which you illustrated. Can can you give us a little bit more, flesh that out a little bit more through this?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Yeah, yeah, I you know, I think uh Sun Sunday when we we spoke on this topic, I talked about gratitude restores our peace with God. Gratitude has a way of restoring peace within community. And and of course, the greatest reason for our gratitude is the cross. Absolutely. Um but I I think you're right. I I think when we can cultivate an attitude of gratitude, it it leads us in pathways of peace. Where grumbling does just the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

I find that interesting, Jared, because people don't think that gratitude is ultimately gonna leave to peace in our current culture. It just goes to speak once again of how co countercultural gods, uh, when you give your life to Christ, how things change or reoriented. But why peace? Why peace?

SPEAKER_02 10:15

I I think peace, contentment, joy is what people ultimately long for. But but in our, you know, in our culture in America here, we're enticed to chase chase it down a variety of avenues that never deliver the way we want them to deliver. Right. And I think part of the reason is is because ultimately we're trying to make it about us. Um when you know, instead of it's instead of I deserve, gratitude's not saying I deserve, it's saying look what I've received. And I think that paradigm switch, that attitude check helps us find a contentment and a joy and a peace because we're not having to strive for it. Um it's something the Lord gives us as a gift. Um and that might be some of the counter-cultural living we're called to and attitudes we're called to kind of um you know, cultivate in our American culture that it is just so different than what we're used to. You know, we're used to uh uh a culture that's built on an ethics of scarcity, not an ethics of abundance like the kingdom of God is, and uh we don't believe there's enough to go around. We gotta grab and hoard for ourselves if we're gonna have. Um it just and it it it generates anxiety um that's that's really void of peace. Uh whereas if we can say, hold on a second, let's have a conversation over why we should be grateful, like like Israel's doing here. You know, they they certainly still had a lot to go through in terms of um overtaking the promised land, the land of Canaan, from different nations. But they pause and let's let's really quickly consider what God has done for us and what he's brought us through to this point, and let's just celebrate his faithfulness.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Um well, on a tangible level, Jared, you know, how can we live with a more grace-filled gratitude in our daily walks of life? Because let's be honest, like if we went out into the world and told people, all you gotta do is read the law of God and you'll become more grateful. I'm pretty sure people reading through the law of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, they might be a little less joy-filled when they see all the restrictions, but that's not the point, is it?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

No. I I think we have to, you know, much what we're saying, our life needs to be oriented around uh gratitude and being humble of heart. And and and I think when we when we have that shift in our in our own soul from grumbling to gratitude, what it does is we have to force ourselves to focus not on what we deserve, but on what we've received.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Oh, wow. Say it again.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Okay, we have to focus not on what we deserve or what we deserve, but rather what we have received. So that's the entitlement issue. That's the entitlement issue. And I think you know, entitlement or pride, right? It says, I've earned this. I deserve this.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

When really it's all gifts.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

God gave this. That gratitude is God gave this, you know. And um you know, I I think when when gratitude becomes our way of life, uh, we recognize that God is the giver of all good gifts. I think when gratitude becomes our way of life, we remember our dependence on Him. Um believe it or not, we do not pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. You know, uh we are dependent on God for our daily provision. I think when gratitude becomes a way of life, we stop measuring life by that word you just said, entitlement. It's not an I deserve, it's well look what I've received. Um in some of the I think most content content content contented and joy-filled and peaceful people I know are people who have cultivated this attitude of gratitude. They're just not um anxious or angry or filled with pride. There's just something about their life that I want. And it really is found in having an attitude of gratitude and in humbling yourself, and it's not again uh what I deserve, it's look what I've received because of the the faithfulness and and the graciousness of our our of our God.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Well, Jared, uh let's be honest, we all have days where we are not more gratefully focused, instead, we're more self-focused or self-centered, or as Brian says, we're belly button gazers, okay. Um stinking thinking. How how do we break a cycle? Like let's turn this inward. Let's turn this from a we collective whole as the church here in uh Canton, Ohio, or universally the church in the world. Jared, how do you break a cycle? When you wake up in a funk from whatever, you know, a tough day, um, you know, wake up on the wrong side of the bed, the proverbial saying, right? How do you break the cycle of this?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

It's a really good question. Um, something I say often, uh, and maybe I haven't said it recently, uh, but you know, when we come to faith in Jesus Christ and we acknowledge his lordship over our lives and we claim him as our Savior, uh, scriptures tell us we're given a number of new things. We're given a new heart, uh, we're given uh a new family, which is the church, we're given a new future. Uh one thing we're not given new of is a new mind. That's why the apostle Paul will say in his letters, like, for instance, Romans 12, uh do not be conformed by the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, right? He says in 2 Corinthians 10 verse 5, to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. And so I think one way to get out of this thinking thinking is to make sure that our mind is being filled with the Word of God. Um, you when I start getting grumpy, um, I start trying to recall scripture that will shift my perspective to the proper place instead of where I am maybe when I wake up in the morning grumpy. Um I think sometimes uh what we need to do is uh we need to identify the lie that's causing us to be grumpy. Um a lot of our thinking can be toxic and can send us down these spirals or cycles where we're thinking to ourselves, I'm worthless, nothing will change, God has forgotten me. And those are statements that get us to the point of grumbling. And if we can just name that as the lie that it is, that kind of I think will help shift us from stinking thinking to being more grateful. Um, I think once we identify the lie, we have to replace it with the truth of God's word. Um, you know, if we're thinking to ourselves, I'm alone, um, I'm all by myself. Well, hold on a second. That's a lie because God says in the scriptures that He will never leave us nor forsake us. And so whether or not we're with another physical person, we're at least with the Holy Spirit, God in the person of the Holy Spirit. And so we are not alone. So let's be grateful that that that God promises to come alongside us and be with us through the highs and lows and everything in between of life. Um I I think uh another thing we have to do in terms of stinking thinking, I think it deals a lot with worry as well. When we get we start getting consumed with things we're worried about, we can fall into patterns of grumbling. We got to replace worry with worship, you know, reset the perspective of your heart on the right person and that being being God. And I think it's also good maybe to invite community. Uh there's been times where I've woken up grumpy and I've just said to my mayor and my wife, I'm in a bad mood right now, and I can't seem to shake it. Uh, can you help me? Or I've done that with some of my friends. Uh, I'm not feeling good right now, I'm I'm I'm I'm moving in in a direction, I'm spiraling, I'm grumpy. I I need to shake myself out of this. I need your help to do that. And I think that's one of the gifts of community is community can come alongside and say, okay, let me help you with this. Yeah. Why do you feel like you're being grumpy? Yeah. What's the lie you're believing? Or what are you forgetting about? Uh, and that can help kind of shake you out of stinking thinking. I like that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, I I keep I'm I'm listening to what you're saying, Jared, and my mind slightly wandering because I am an engineer, I'm thinking of an electrician at heart too. Uh, like the word of God exposes things, it brings things that are in the dark to light.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

And uh I absolutely love the uh illustration in our text uh of scripture over and over and over again that says the light of Christ over and over and over. And you know, I know personally from from my perspective, oftentimes when I get stuck in a rut and have that stinking thinking, uh, it's because exactly what you said, it's because I am instead of focusing on the main thing, uh, I'm focusing on something minor.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And when I when I read scripture, so often uh my mindset gets reoriented because uh there are so many examples of great examples of scripture that are uh relevant today. It's just I mean, if you think you got a bad, I guarantee you there's something worse than scripture, right? Job, right? Yeah, I mean, and it's it's not a competition, but so often in life we play that game. It's it's we compare ourselves to other people, and then we start to feel down and we've or the whims of emotions, or just the opposite, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, I I've heard us say when you know, you know, uh when you compare yourself to some to another person, it either makes you feel inferior or superior, and neither are from God. You know, and and so it's never good to compare yourself to others because if it makes you feel inferior, you're probably gonna start grumbling. If it makes you feel feel superior, you're probably gonna start getting prideful. Um go back to grumbling and gratitude, though, you're making me think, because we're in Joshua, you're making me think of the Israelites and they're wandering up for 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

You were pretty good at grumbling and they're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

They were unbelievably good at grumbling, and it was because they weren't focusing on the right thing. Yes. Like, like, I mean, think about their story. 400 years of servitude in Egypt. Right. Like God raises up Moses to be their deliverer. He leads them out of Egypt. They come to the Red Sea, they're bellyaching about how they're gonna die by the Egyptians because they're stuck, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

They're stuck, they got the Red Sea in front of them.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

It literally divides the Red Sea, they walk through, they get to the other side, they they join in this worship service in the celebration. A couple days later, they start grumbling about how they have no food and they used to sit around pots of meat in Egypt. And so you're thinking, Are you serious? Like, did you see what God just did for you? And then throughout the entire 40 years, God feeds them with the bread of heaven. Yeah, but they're not, they start grumbling about that. They start grumbling about that, so he brings them quail, they start grumbling about that. Their clothes and sandals never wore out in 40 years, but they found a way to grumble about their their situation. And you're thinking, man, it's it's because you started thinking about what you deserve instead of fixating your your attention on what you've actually received. And if they focused on what they actually received and not what they thought they allegedly deserved, they would have not grumbled as much. They would have, I think, had more grateful, gratefulness in their hearts.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Amen. Yeah. Well, I I know like it's it's in my human nature as a you know, I always say I'm a pessimist at heart. That's part of the hard thing of being an engineer, is you're always looking for the things that are wrong. Yeah, yeah. So you're always looking for the worst case scenarios. And I know that that sometimes orients me completely wrong when you're looking for gratefulness. But Jared, you know, let's let's turn This personal once again. Yeah. What are you grateful in this season? I know I'm so grateful for so many things involved with this faith family, especially as we look at so many people in our own community who are hurting, and we see so many people in our faith family reaching out to help bridge the gap. How about for you, Jared? What are you what are you grateful for in this season?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Wow, there's so there's so much to be grateful for. I mean, certainly the typical things I'm grateful for, like the fact that I even woke up today with breath in my lungs. You know, I I think of my beautiful family that the Lord has uh has given me to steward, and I just am so thankful. Thankful that you know my family's adopting a young man out of foster care. Um and he's just such a huge addition to our family. Uh I'm thankful for Church of the Lakes. I'm thankful, like you just said, all the outreach that that our church does locally, regionally, and globally. Um primarily thinking about you know what we do in terms of ministering to children in foster care in a variety of ways. Uh I'm so thankful in terms of this the spiritual vitality of this church. Uh, there is uh I think in the past maybe year or two, has been just uh a deeper seriousness and intention with prayer, and even with fasting.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

They're tied hand to hand, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 23:17

People are hungry to go deeper with the Lord, and it's so exciting to see uh people on their knees in prayer. Uh people saying, uh when we when we're coming up to maybe somebody who's significantly ill or hurt, okay, let's pray and fast. Like, you know, they they they want to bend the ear of God to to respond to the needs of people. Um so I'm so thankful for that. I'm thankful for you know our worship leadership. I think of our music ministry with with Pastor Tony Walsh and of course Dean Wagner on the the the organ. Um I'm thankful for all the people who who serve in the church in a variety of capacities uh to to make worship and discipleship and uh service uh just integral parts of of our our existence as a faith family.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

That's awesome. Yeah, thank you for sharing. I know it's a runway. Um we don't always get an opportunity to say how grateful we are to be in partners with people in this faith family, because certainly that is a blessing, is it not?

SPEAKER_02 24:19

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

And and it's just so powerful when we have an opportunity to say thank you. Because oftentimes on Sunday morning, you know, we've gotten pushback when we celebrate ministries and stuff like that because people think we're patting ourselves on the back, and that's not it at all, is it? It's our way of saying how grateful we are for the people giving up their time, their talents, and their treasures.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah, I I guess maybe one of the big things I'm thankful for is that God has entrusted to us a certain level of ministry. You know, as we seek to, you know, expand the boundaries of God's kingdom on earth. Uh God has entrusted us, and then that's huge, that He's given us responsibility. And then of course, ultimately, I'm so thankful for the blood Jesus shed to cover our sins uh you know to cleanse us and to uh give us a pathway to to reconciliation with the God who created us.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

And we don't have to celebrate that only on Easter morning every single day. It really will reorient your life if you wake up in the morning and say, first and foremost, thank you, God. Yeah, thank you, God for Jesus, thank you, God for the Spirit, thank you for the Trinity. But um as we move on just a little bit, Jared, you know, last week we um talked about uh a little bit of the difficult scripture. We talked about uh was last week Isaac? I'm trying to remember. It was uh Elijah. Oh, yeah. Well, Elijah's story was difficult as he tried to be conquered on on top of a mountain, uh the prophets of Baal, but then coming down and get pushed to another mountain as he has to run for his life. The week before that, then was Isaac. Um some painful scriptures to read about what God wanted uh wanted to be done with uh Isaac on the altar uh from Abraham. But then also, Jared, you know, although we didn't read it in Joshua this week, Joshua is a difficult book to read.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Very difficult book. That was probably the hardest book to to kind of absorb and digest.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, the end of Judges is difficult to read for me, but uh Joshua is right up there with the uncomfortable, and it's not it's it's just the way that the the violence plays out in the scriptures, quite honestly. Um, we had a question this week for our real question, real answer segment that uh kind of highlighted this. I I hope you could illuminate this. Once again, if you're interested in sending in a question that uh Jared and I could answer on the podcast, we'd love you to do that. Please email me at Robert at churchlakes.org. We'd love to read your question here and give you credit for it if you give us permission. But of course, uh if you want to be anonymous, that's fine also. But uh someone asked us a question this week. What do you say to someone who loves the idea of scripture but struggles with some of what's actually in it? I don't think this is uh uh a question that is illustrated more pertinently than when we look at the violence and the conquering that goes on in Joshua, perhaps.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Well, I I think that's a great question, as someone brought in. I I think that there is a difference with somebody who's wrestling with the hard parts of scripture versus someone who's outright rejecting scripture. I think to wrestle with scripture is very healthy. If you look in the in the biblical narrative, there are people within the scriptures that wrestled with God's call or God's intentions or God's word. And it's very healthy to wrestle with scripture. Um uh when you wrestle with scripture, um again, it struggling and wrestling with it is not the same thing as outright rejecting it. There are parts of the Bible uh that tells the truth about the broken world in which we live. And that's one reason why some of these passages are uncomfortable, because they speak to the seriousness of sin, uh, to the complexity of human history. Uh, and that's something we kind of have to grapple with. Um I think we also need to realize scripture is a kind of like progressive story. Um, the full picture of God's heart isn't really revealed until you get to the person and work of Jesus Christ. And so when we're confused by a passage of scripture, maybe say like the book of Joshua, we need to interpret it in light of Christ's light, his teaching, his death, resurrection, and his ascension, and his promise to come again. Um, and I also think that the goal of engaging in the scripture is to seek deeper understanding of it and not just simply blind acceptance. That's why it's good to wrestle with it. It wrestle with the hard parts, but don't outright reject it because it is the word of God. Uh, and we truly believe that to be the case, uh that it is the word of God.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Well, it brings the contextualization, you know. Yeah, oftentimes people try and cherry pick verses out of chapters and chapters out of books. Right, it's missing the whole point. You can't you really need to look at the whole book as a narrative and then once again expand even further back and make it in the whole biblical narrative. Um, thank you for bringing that. But uh, we also had another question that that's very similar to this. Um, uh once again, with all the um murder conquest of the Canaanites that we read in Joshua, I think there's some parallels here, Jared, between colonialism, nationalism, whatever you want to say. Uh what do you say to those who maybe take a look at our scripture from this past week out of Joshua 8 and begin reading some of the scriptures surrounding it? Because that's what that's what makes me so excited is when we preach on a word and uh specific passage of scripture, and people go home and then expand around it. Yeah, and but that sometimes brings some questions because like this one. Yeah, right. Well, well, uh how do you how do you tell someone who's reading through those hard themes and maybe see some of the parallelism that we see today in our own nation?

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah, I I would love it if one of my old testament professors was with us today to answer some of these questions on Joshua. Yeah, but but at the surface level, what I would tell you about the book of Joshua, because it is a hard book to read, sure, probably one of the hardest books from a modern reader to understand and grapple with. But I think one thing we have to realize about Joshua is it is not a book about ethnic superiority or ethnic cleansing. That is not what this book's about. What this book is about is divine judgment. Um it's it's it's really um a unique moment in the redemptive history of humanity. And so God, uh, you have to go all the way back to Genesis, but God had waited centuries to judge the Canaanites for what they've done. I think it's Genesis 15. Uh the Canaanites were uh societies that practice extreme violence, ritual prostitution, child sacrifice. So, again, the judgment that is being bestowed upon the Canaanites and other nations here in Joshua, it's not about ethnic superiority, not about ethnic cleansing. It's all about divine judgment. Now, with that said, I'll also add that Israel is not in a morally superior position than the Canaanites at all. Like if you were to keep reading in the biblical narrative, you see that. And and God repeatedly warns Israel throughout the Old Testament that they're gonna face judgment too if they do not live lives in alignment to his word and his law. And we know that they eventually do, right? Um, you know, when uh the Assyrians come and take out the the northern kingdoms of Israel and send them off to exile, and then just you know, roughly 140 years later, Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians come and take the southern kingdom and burn Jerusalem to the ground and take them off to Babylon. You know, and then you have the prophecy of Jeremiah and such when you get to that part of their history. Uh, but but they were disciplined, they were judged, uh, as were the Canaanites in Joshua and other four nations as well. And so again, it's not about any type of ethnic or national superiority, it's about divine judgment and God using people groups uh for for redemptive purposes. Um, the last thing I would say as well, you know, in light of Joshua and also the tenor of all of Scripture is the trajectory of the Bible moves towards mercy. It moves towards grace. Uh, the Bible ultimately moves towards the teaching of Jesus, who calls his followers to what? Love their enemies, to overcome evil with good. And so the kingdom of God, uh, ultimately, again, we see this in the Christ in Jesus. The kingdom of God advances not through swords, but through self-sacrificial love. And that is really what the church's call is today. So put Joshua in its place in history. Again, don't look at it as a book of, oh, you know, this gives a specific people group the right to um ethnically cleanse another people group out of existence. That's not what Joshua's saying. It is just a moment in time where God is is judging a nation that he believed needed to be judged because of the the violent and wickedness within them. And he used the people his people, the Israelites, to to kind of as the conduit of that judgment. Um, but again, it's nothing that Israel itself didn't face later on. Sure. Because of their disobedience, absolutely in their their wickedness and their depravity. But again, ultimately the scripture is moving us toward uh the person and work of Jesus Christ. And so we have to hold everything in light of Christ, in light of in light of Jesus, to really put it in its proper place. Um a final thought on Joshua that I would have is I think the greatest danger for God's people is not the enemies outside of our camp, it's forgetting the God who brought us to where we are. Um the greatest, you could say the greatest enemy is not outside of us, it's within us. That's why, you know, in this story in Joshua 8, if we can bring it back to that, the conquest conquest pause for a moment of worship. Before the victory, before the progress, before the next step, it was vital that Joshua thought we need to remember the Lord. Okay, now we'll we'll play the part God wants us to play in his redemptive story for for all of humanity and essentially all of creation.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Thank you, Jared. Yeah, it's certainly not an easy question, but it's worth one uh talking about and flushing out on the internet. It's a great question. Yeah. Um, well, once again, if you'd like to submit a question, feel free to email me at Robert at churchtelakes.org. We'd love to read it out on this podcast and tell you a little bit more about uh real questions to real pastors uh uh with real answers. Uh so thank you so much for your time today, Jared. Our next episode was going to look at the next altar in our sermon series, which is gonna be kind of going backwards even again. We're gonna be going back to Genesis uh primarily in chapters 32 and 33, where we look at Jacob, who uh erects an altar after wrestling with God. Perhaps you're familiar with that passage and we'll get a chance to chew on that a little bit together next week. But uh before we go, I want to say a big thank you to our director of communications, Betsy, uh our editor extraordinary, uh Len, he always does a great job and is such a great encourager. And then once again to my wife, Stephanie, um, who helps get this all out on our social media channels. Uh and if you want to once again reach out to me, give us some feedback. If you'd like to follow along, like or subscribe to our podcast. Um, of course, you can reach all of this on our website, and it tells you how to more thoughtfully connect to our uh theme for 2026, which is all based around a kingdom mindset. Once again, we are doing this because it is our mission to connect all to Christs, become healthy, and God encourages us and love. And until next time, God bless.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Thank you for listening to this bonus podcast from Church of the Lakes with Pastor Jared Presett and Pastor Robbie Strapp. If today's message encouraged you and helped you grow as a devoted follower of Christ, we invite you to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also help others discover this podcast by leaving a five-star rating or review and sharing it with your friends, family, coworkers, and others in your circle of influence. We're also very grateful for your generosity, which helps make messages like this available to more people. If you feel led to give, please check the link in the description. And if you're in the North Kenton, Ohio area, we would love to invite you to join us in person on Sunday and worship together. To learn more about Church of the Lakes, visit churchofthelakes.org or visit the website link in the description. Until next time, stay encouraged and keep walking in faith.